Crossfit

Guest · Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: Crossfit

Take a look at this site...probly one of the best i have ever found concerning real world functional fitness. Michael

Their philosophy in 100 words...
Eat meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, little starch and no sugar. Keep intake to levels that will support exercise but not body fat. Practice and train major lifts: Deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstand, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. Regularly learn and play new sports. http://www.crossfit.com/

Afew crossfit women :wink:
http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/051204.wmv

NaturalFitness · Guest

Hello everyone, I will try to keep this as short and simple as possible. The exercises described in the workout above is total nonsense and will lead most people to massive injuries. These are all Olympic Lifts that were designed for one thing and one thing only and its not functional training (more on this myth in a minute) but rather to improve one's lifting proficiency at these exacts events.
Not only are these exercises extremely dangerous but will give you
no advantage over training each muscle group from multiple angles using normal exercises.

Functional Training does not exist, it is a total myth. There are no hidden core muscles in the human body. True Core muscles consist of the lumbar spine, the obliques, rectuc abdominus and transverse abdominus. Ladies and gentlemen were are being fed a bunch of lies in order to market a useless product. A product that is making millions of dollars and has no real scientific proof behind it. There is not-a-one study to support the claims of bosu balls, stablility balls. Balancing on these pieces of equipment make you better at one thing and thats whatever movement your doing on this ball, once you go back to doing your real sport your will see no or very little improvements and alot actually get worse at their sports. You see there is a little pricinple in Fitness called the S.A.I.D pricinple ( SPECIFIC ADAPTION TO IMPOSED DEMANDS) What these trainers and physiotherapists are promoting goes totally against the very principle which is a staple of FITNESS. You cannot tranfer a new learned skillset to another existing skillset. If this were possible then any athlete can become great at every sport without practicing the actually sport. Remember Michael Jordan, one of the greatest athletes ever, he left the basketball seen to try his luck at Baseball, with no success at all. Why, because he never truly practised that specific skill. To get better at something you need to practice the EXACT movement, almost exact will not do it and so their is functional training demystified for everyone.

I urge all readers in the alive forum to stay away from programs like this one if they truly value their health. Fitness is a business just like all other businesses, if they can make money off something they will try.

NaturalFitness

me · Guest

Oh, that's really funny. Surely the exercises will lead people to injury if you don't do them properly, which is why you need training... and Olympic lifts certainly do lead to functional training. Actually one study even showed that Olympic lifting has the lowest number of injuries per 100 hours of training, compared to powerlifting and bodybuilding. See http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-olympic-lifting.asp

Funny that you think a free website is marketting a useless product...

A general physical preparedness program (like Crossfit) practiced *in addition* to practicing the sport you're training in is a winning formula.

You may want to download the *free* Journal on http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-how.html to understand more about what fitness is before giving people such bad advice.

NaturalFitness · Guest

Hello guest, You are telling someone who has studied Exercise science and human motor learning development for the last 10 or so years that they know nothing about fitness(now thats funny), while you on the other hand passed some grade 2 equilvalent exam probably from some certification company and now your an expert on the subject :):)

Also I don't believe I ever stated once that the crossfit site was a marketing a useless product but rather that functional training in general is a useless product.

I don't want the people on this forum to believe what I said but rather do their own unbiased research on the subject and im sure if they look in the right direction they will find the truth.

I think you need to understand that I am on this forum to provide people with advice on rational strength training, that is both safe and effective. If you believe that crossfit is a safe and effective program compared to a normal strenght training one then keep training in that manner, but im sure the people on this forum who know how to use common sense can figure out whats safer. I have nothing more to say on this topic.

Good evening all :)

NaturalFitness

Guest · Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject:

"Me", well said, and very true!

Natural, despite your confidence, im afraid your information is woefully out of date...i would hate to come to you as a client with that type of closemindedness.

The exercises on Crossfit are very safe and functional if performed properly...just as any weight training program should be! Multi joint compound exercizes incorporating more than 1 muscle group at a time are far safer, more functional, and actually what we use in our day to day lives outside the weight room. Virtually everything we do wether a sport or daily activity incorporates more than 1 muscle group at a time...therefore it would make perfect sense to focus on that very thing when training...no matter WHAT your training for!

This is why Crossfit endorses such a mindset and is used by countless military personell, law enforcement, helping professionals etc who need to be in top physical condition when putting their lives on the line! ANYTHING, that did not, or does not produce SAFE, FUNCTIONAL, physical results in the LEAST amount of time would not be used...period!

Sense you seem to be the self appointed "fitness guru" on here i would urge you to look at some different things instead of staying in your little box! You also might want to check out Randall Strossen Ph.D. who wrote a book entitled "SuperSquats" He said, Ignoring the fact that your time is precious and you might not want to spend 3 hours in the gym everyday hitting each muscle group, and the fact that its a rare movement in everyday life that truly isolates a single muscle group anyways, using basic major lifts would be an excellent alternative.
Another very compelling reason to use these exercises, they increase size and strength far better than any isolation movement will produce....in fact, 1 compound exercise will produce far more bulk, power, and functionality than an entire seriies of isolation ones. Dont believe me...look at ANY powerlifter, their entire workout consists of only 3 exercises, squats, deadlifts, and bench presses. If you combine the Crossfit methods with playing and learning new and different sports i promise you you will see fantastic results

10 years of exercize science huh lol... better get some new material! Know what you are talking about before you start telling these people what is and is not beneficial to them...If you are really interested in this issue, I encourage you to do some proper research and not settle for old discredited nonsense.
Let these people try something for themselves and SEE the results before you tell them all the things that are bad for them or that the shouldnt do!

And by the way...if your about to come back at me with the whole "Im a fitness god, i know what im talking about" line... gimme a break! I have been around enough coaches, exercize physiologists, doctors, sports therapists etc as well as competed and trained others as well as myself on a national level in martial arts to know what is safe, and what does and does not work for real in the shortest amount of time!

Bottom line, let people explore things for themselves and let the results PROOVE the difference!

Good evening to you too good buddy :wink:

Michael

Guest · Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject:

Oh and before you want to say something about typos, spelling, punctuation etc...i got a sticky keyboard and its taking to long to edit so get over it :P

me · Guest

Natural fitness, perhaps if your study of exercise science actually benefitted you and you wrote with some intelligence, I'd have more respect for your supposed "knowledge" on the subject.

Functional training is not useless, nor is it a product.

I'm sorry that you feel threatened by training that is more functional that that which you paid thousands of dollars to study.

I've done "normal strength training" and I've done Crossfit and the results speak for themselves.

NaturalFitness · Guest

Hi everyone, if theres anyone out their that still doesn't want to believe how the fitness industry promotes dangerous activities then take a look at this interesting article by Ken Mannie, Strength and Conditioning Coach - Michigan State Spartans

Here's the link

http://www.i-a-r-t.com/articles/mannieexplosion.html

NaturalFitness

Guest · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject:

• Weightlifters [Olympic style] have less than half the injury rate per 100 hours of training than do those engaged in other forms of weight training; 17 vs 35. (Hamill, B. Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 8(1):53-57. 1994)

• Retired Olympic weight lifters had lower lifetime incidence and prevalence of low back pain than a control group of normal active men of similar age; 23% vs. 31%. (Granhed, H. et al. Low back pain among retired wrestlers and heavyweight lifters. The American Journal of Sports Medicine,16(5):530-533. 1988)

• Mike Stone, et. Al. provided an excellent review of the research literature on this topic. The inescapable conclusion was that weightlifting is indeed the safest method of weight training. (Stone, M. H., A. C. Fry, M. Ritchie, L. Stoessel-Ross, and J. L. Marsit. Injury potential and safety aspects of weightlifting movements. Strength and Conditioning. June: 15-21. 1994)

A structured weight lifting program (including olympic weight lifts such as the clean & jerk and snatch) can be saftely performed by girls and boys (ages 7-16).
Pierce K, Byrd R, Stone M (1999). Injuries in youth weightlifting. J Strength Cond Res. 13(4):430.

Clarence · Guest

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-olympic-lifting.asp

Danger Wil Robinson · Guest

Yeah, your right, we promote all those dangerous activities because we are sooo ignorant and misguided by this dreaded fitness conspiracy.
Ohhh we have NEVER trained or been trained in real life, OR competed at a high level in sport, so we have no clue what we are saying or doing...it really sucks
Yeah its just all guesswork, hearsay, and theory with us at this point, no REAL world experience...but we read alot so hopefully we'll get through the maze of uncertainty :?
To everyone on this forum, we really and truly do enjoy injuring ourselves as well as others, that way we can all be unable to train and perform under high stress conditions we may encounter in our lives. Thats exactly why we promote such dangerously crazy ineffective material...because it just doesnt work :cry:

Danger :twisted:

NaturalFitness · Guest

Wow so you obviously didn't read the article presented by Ken Mannie very clearly now did you, thats too bad. Doesn't matter anyways believe what you want. It wouldn't matter if the evidence was placed right in front of you or not, you are all still going to believe whatever the big boys in the industry say and print or what you want to believe. No point in debating any longer I give up.

Its funny though how more and more Strength and Conditioning Coaches in the NFL and NCAA have decided to switch over from a functional style training program (that is supposedly superior) to a more rational High Intensity style of weight training( which is supposedly not very functional for the body compared to Olympic lifts). It must be because their information and research is woefully out of date are uneducated or they just haven't got a clue as to how to train properly and effectively.

Oh and by the way one last thing, I never once said anything about normal compound movements, what I was talking about was Olympic style lifts. There are differences. I am all for Compound movements.

Hey look we can finally agree on something :)

So You guys win. Functional Training and Olympic lifts are the most productive injury free type of exercise you can do. Now everyone's happy :):):):):)

Happy training all :)

NaturalFitness

Guest · Guest

This post has been mentioned in CrossFit's own forum so I would expect a flurry of posts...

While I don't agree with the general criticisms Natural has written there are fair criticisms of the program.

1. Most significantly, the high volume of CF in a given day, particularly when it come to some of the olympic lifts and more complex moves opens a person up to a higher risk of injury. That's a fair criticism and something CF seems to ignore.

2. The workout-of-the-day posted on the site included complex movements that someone who is untrained could certainly injure themselves attempting to perform. This is more of an individual responsibility issue and would not occur under proper instruction at a CF facility.

Having laid out the "real" criticisms I also think it's important to mention that the top strength and conditionin coaches generally recommend similar movements (olympic lifts and variations) in their programs. Do searches on the internet for Mike Boyle, Chad Waterbury, Craig Ballentyne, Alwyn Cosgrove, Rachel Cosgrove, dos Remedios and on and on. You'll find them all recommending full-body functional, heavy weight movements.

I've done many programs including CrossFit. The only ones I feel were a waste of my time was heavy in cardio, machines and isolation movements.

Guest · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:15 am Post subject:

[quote]Wow so you obviously didn't read the article presented by Ken Mannie[/quote]I've read it many times and there are a ton of basic errors. As in, Mannie didn't even read the studies he quotes. The way he misquotes and misunderstands the Kotani study is a classic error that the HIT community repeats over and over.

Guest · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:24 am Post subject:

Not that i think Cossfit is all about balancing balls or anything remotely like that but i did find this study interesting...

Physioball Training More Effective Than the Same Movements on the Floor
Tuesday, November 18, 2003

Researchers at Springfield College, Massachusetts concluded that early adaptations in a short-term core exercise program using the physioball resulted in greater gains in torso balance and EMG neuronal activity in previously untrained women when compared to performing exercises on the floor.
The purpose of this study was to compare the effects of five weeks of physioball core stability and balance exercises with conventional floor exercises in untrained women. The experimental group of 15 performed curl-ups and back extensions on the physioball while the control group of 15 performed the same exercises on the floor. Baseline and post-training tests included electromyography (EMG) recording of the rectus abdominus and erector spinae muscles; abdominal, back, and knee strength measurements with the Cybex Norm System; and 2 balance tests. The physioball group was found to have significantly greater mean change in EMG flexion and extension activity and greater balance scores than the floor exercise group. No significant changes were observed for heart rate or Cybex strength measurements.
This study has shown that significant gains in trunk stability and balance can occur in untrained women even when a well-designed core stability and balance training program is conducted on a short-term basis.
Cosio-Lima L, Reynolds K, Winter C, Paolone V, Jones M. (2003). Effects of Physioball and Conventional Floor Exercises on Early Phase Adaptations in Back and Abdominal Core Stability and Balance in Women. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 17(4): 721 – 725